Ubuntu vs Debian: this is amazing!
Submitted by admin on Wed, 2006-10-04 21:44
The other day I was playing with fun Google Trends tool and got an idea to check Ubuntu versus Debian popularity. You can see the result on the picture below and I don't know about you, but it simply amazes me how popular Ubuntu is these days. And not only that, but its popularity is growing day by day, while it can be easily seen that Debian is either stagnating or slowly fading out.
Of course, the trend of Google searches might not represent the number of real installations or any other parameter well, but it's still very indicative. I read a funny story on the topic recently, Breaking up with you, your daughter is prettier and easier, except it's not funny anymore. This far, you have probably guessed that I'm a Debian user. For a decade, if I may add.
So, I don't know, I'll probably spend one weekend installing and testing Ubuntu, it seems that it deserves at least that much effort, but knowing myself, I'll probably be back to Debian before Monday. I don't expect Ubuntu to offer me anything really spectacular, besides polished installation and good initial configuration.
On the other hand, if you're new to Linux, it seems that Ubuntu is really a good choice, if not the best!
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#My personal experience as a
#My personal experience as a Linux user
The first distro I have tried and adopted was Ubuntu. It came with the Linux magazine I bought back then, since I was interested by the whole unix/linux world...
The Pros of using a distro such as Ubuntu, is the huge support you'll get from pretty much any linux forum on the web; the debian users knows how to deal with ubuntu user anyway since it's where it came from. AND not to mention, its incredibly growing popularity.
When it comes to free support, regular kernel and security update, it's fine....if you love to reboot. Not only do you love rebooting, but according to what I witness to be the .deb packages sources, programs that doesnt need graphical user interface (or that doesnt come with one (defaultly) are pretty rare and/or overlooked by many users. This is my point.
We lost the spirit here, guys;
Ubuntu motto would sounds like : as easy as windows
Dont bother with the command-line, just click wherever you want/need to. Thought, the genuine power of Linux resides within the very command-line interface. If you ask them, I'd bet that most ubuntu users don't even know what a crontable is, nor wouldnt they know how to set-up a new user WITH options (sendmail, chroot, whatever). Ubuntu is very efficient at leveling linux for the average window user, pretty look, sweet splash screen, A shitload of applications (most with gui) a beautifull menu.... not for me.
I turned to debian, looking for something "somewhat pure" and I've been served very well since i usually do terminal and configuration scripts, turned off all the compositing , and shitty window manager, the only reason why I do not stick with fluxbox/blackbox/Enlightment or such is that it doesnt integrate keyboard shortcut well ( And I love keyboard shortcuts).
Debian came with a very few application, openoffice,accessory like the calculator, and a web browser. I chose the LXDE interface, it was plain, simple, and DIY all the way. No pop-ups giving me "advices" on how to organise my OS....nor did anyone else helped me out setting the whole box for my needs (multi-user crossplatform networking) Debian let me be, the only time it ever bothers me with updates or upgrades is when I ask for it through terminal.Sure its pretty popular, too, its one of the oldest linux (in this world) has a stable support community and it's less buggy than ubuntu. Besides, i dont like hype nor buzz, Ive quit windows for a simple reason; it is totally boring to work on. Unless you're a programmer. When I changed I simply wanted to experiment, I would never go back to windows, nor ubuntu.
I have tried many distro out there...DSL, puppylinux, gentoo, suse (thats terrible if you ask me, I hate YaSt!) tried slax and fedora 11. I stick with debian right now till i get my new box which will run SOLARIS ;)
Linux is now popular, on the
Linux is now popular, on the map and is being tried out and considered by regular Windows users and all this is due to Ubuntu which has in a big way demystified Linux. Had it not been for Ubuntu, there would be no such discussion centering around Linux.
By the way if anyone wants a long term solution with Ubuntu, you can always opt for stable well supported LTS editions which take the most conservative route. So yes we thank Debian and we tank Ubuntu and in all, its Linux that wins regardless of distro.
Well yeah. ubuntu did make
Well yeah. ubuntu did make linux popular. but who is its father: Debian Sid (unstable).
A Really Important Comparison?
There is a whole lot of activity revealed by Google that doesn't reflect much of reality. "Postmoderns," the youngest Linux users out there, are likely to get caught up in an obsessive clicking tantrum, searching for the holy grail of Linux distributions which will give them a one-click-install to a compiz desktop, and everything working ootb.
I imagine much of this activity is people who install ubuntu, get frustrated over something, install something else, get frustrated, and realizing how easy ubuntu was, they come back. Invariably they thrash between opensuse and ubuntu.
It has taken me a while (as a new linux user) to understand skills and knowledge, not the distribution, are the most important.
Now a real test, would be to find a way to quantify the amount of real work accomplished by a given system. Uptimes, bandwidth, etc. Stability under a heavy workload. I would venture that perhaps Debian has a lower percentage of newbies, and therefore less of this phenomenon occurs. Seasoned linux users will go to man pages, online docs, tldp, etc., before google. But I could be wrong :-)
whats the difference?
I used debian for a while and saw all the hype about ubuntu! and how popular it is, so I decided to install it and try it, I sincearly do not see what the difference is compared to pure debian? ubuntu IS debian in every sence! userfriendly? not exaclty! do everything work right out of the box? no way! mp3 wont play, movies wont play, but that is as usual with most of the distros, I dont understand why newbes chose ubuntu? is ubuntu better than debian? not it is not cus ubuntu IS debian, what struck me when I first tryed it out is that it seems buggy alot! crashes after crashes, I never experienced that in debian, this might be cus of all of the versions ubuntu is producing, xubuntu,kubuntu,edubuntu, and you name it, if they are in such a hurry, Im not supriced its buggy. I find debian much more stable, sure, maybe debian is not first with all the new software, but when it come it work! all of you ubuntu freaks, debian isnt any harder to install than ubuntu these days, debian has a new graphical installer that works like a charm, just as easy as installing xp
my humble viewpoint
Well, i use gnu-linux since 1998, and the first time i installed successfully a Debian-based distro were from Ubuntu 4.10 - that time i really got amazed on how awesome can be a Debian-based distro, and i didn't get this feedback from Debian.
I recognize Debian has a huge effort on having everything nicelly organized, and it's a true multi-architecture distribution (around 15 officially, even those very promissing Intel-killers, such as Arm and Sparc...), what is awesome for a distribution, but in the other hand, the default Debian installers (even Lenny) lacks on very basic things we always find from Ubuntu very easily, such as being easily at sudo, configuration, having synaptic defaultly installed, having wireless suport defaultly, etc. - My concern is how hard Debian can scare newbies (such as Gentoo and others), what is not good at all, when we know Ubuntu is based on Debian. I seriously want to ask Debian developers helping it, on versions next to Lenny, on making it as simple to install and use as Ubuntu is - can be this possible?
What i love on Ubuntu is how is it very easy to use, and more important, for helping newbies migrating to it, helps me showing gnu-Linux is and can be an operating system very easy to use, and very trustable.
>> A Really Important
>> A Really Important Comparison?
>> There is a whole lot of activity revealed by Google that doesn't reflect much of reality. "Postmoderns," the youngest Linux users
>> out there, are likely to get caught up in an obsessive clicking tantrum, searching for the holy grail of Linux distributions which
>> will give them a one-click-install to a compiz desktop, and everything working
>> ...
>> Seasoned linux users will go to man pages, online docs, tldp, etc., before google. But I could be wrong :-)
Agreed, you could be wrong; but I think not.
.
First of all, all following references to "Debian" are a shortend form of the TRUE name: "Debian GNU/Linux", this is important
since you should consider exactly where does ALL the software ORIGONATE from. (Hint: Which compiler does it use ?) ...
.
Ubuntu is a "pretty" fork of Debian. The "glitter" attracts the newbie looking for a Windows XP replacement.
Debian can be setup to look as "pretty" as Ubuntu simply by adding some wallpaper and "Themeing the Desktop" (with a CPU hogger).
Ubuntu is not ALWAYS (completely) binary compatable with Debian.
.
If you are new to Linux you probably would choose Ubuntu (and as a former Windows user) and Google for help
(to avoid posting a dumb comment and being flamed -- at least people learned that much over the years past).
.
The 'Nerds' (not new to Linux) can Google also, but they don't need to put "Debian" in their search query just
as when you speak you don't include your name in each sentance. We are not playing "Simon sez", we are too old
for that foolishness (at least us 'Nerds' are).
.
The "Newest 'Debian'" does have a more "glitzy" GUI setup program, if that is all that was holding you back now you are safe ...
.
Why get a "fork distro" when you can have "Real Linux" (unless you want "Real Unix", which differs from "Linux").
Yes I admit it. Linux is a "fork" too, and that dilutes the power of my argument. Are you better off with a fork
of a fork (Ubuntu, or whatever else)?
.
The _reason_ to use "Linux", instead of "Unix" is for all the great FREE support from a HUGE community of users.
The _reason_ to use "Unix", instead of "Linux" is for all the great PAID support from a SMALLER number of "Techs"
who (ought to) provide what you paid for (a "stable" operating system with (PAID) 24/7/365+ support).
The _reason_ to use "a fork of 'True' Linux", instead of "Debian GNU/Linux" is that the particular version you
have chosen will provide a particular feature that "Debian GNU/Linux" does not offer (such as running in 64k of
memory (on a chip in your watch)).
.
In short, your "statistics" are SKEWED by the peculiarities of the persons who would use Ubuntu (or other Linuxes),
they tend to be more tearful when they have a problem and keep clicking the [Search] button on Google (with uBuNtU
as one of the search words) whereas the 'Nerds' just go grab a coffee and come back to their computer calm and ready
to work (planning to spend "X" amount of time to be the ONE who actually fixes the problems for everyone else).
.
Sometime later these fixes will be incorporated into the forks and the fockers (SIC) will stop their insessant clicking !
.
Now that 'they' are hit with the FACTs 'the rest of us' await the tearful replies (with excessive amounts of punctuation
characters and much camel-casing).
.
My sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=debian
Re: A Really Importanet
I don't agree with you.
As somebody else said before, what is real important is to offer as many users as possible, a Linux alternative to their paid MS Windows. And you cannot do it easer, nowadays, other than throughout Ubuntu. Once an MS user is convinced that Linux may offer an interesting alternative than, I am pretty shore, that the new comer will face two alternatives: 1. stick with Ubuntu as it is; 2. Try learning more about linux distro's, concepts, what makes them different in comparison with windows, etc. (this is what I am doing now). Eventually, when a new comer to linux would have been built a nice knowledge ground in Linux, than he might afford to become a Linux puritanic and shift gradually to the original source of Linux and to create new kernel functions.
I am using now Opensuse 11.2/KDE Desktop Environment and I can say that I succeed to use it pretty well after I configure it to a nice eye candy stile, with almost 90% functionality of Windows Ultimate, I used before. I am not a puritanical user of Linux but I gave it 100% credit to become the new OS for my desktop computer. Now I am thinking to try Debian. That's why I started loving Linux: it always offers me alternatives.
real linux?
There is no real or unreal Gnu/Linux. Yes, Ubuntu is a Debian fork. Does this make it unreal? I don't see the point. I am Using Ubuntu. My last distro before Ubuntu was Gentoo. That's why I have no actual comparison to Debian. But I guess it wouldn't be much of a difference though.
The main strength I see in Ubuntu is it's attraction to everyday users while still providing the full amount of "nerdability". My mom uses it. She's a language teacher. I know an art student using it, a theologian, a print worker, a fotografer, all using Ubuntu Gnu/Linux. Without Ubuntu all these people would probably stick to Windows. One cannot expect them to open a terminal window and to drop some text commands, or to write a script or to compile something or whatever. Why? Because they have other stuff to do (non-computer stuff). They live real lives. Some of them go to work every day. They don't have time and interest for learning the underlying concepts of GUIs (not to mention the barrier of slow typing). They don't want to be bothered with computer stuff more then necessary (and THEY define what 'necessary' means to them). If they spend a lot of time sitting in front of the screen, it's for productive work, communication, diversion etc. If Ubuntu provides a real alternative for those people who would never ever use a less easy distro, than it's a benefit for the Gnu/Linux and open source world.
At the same time more sophisticated users can do all the nerdy stuff on Ubuntu they'd do on Debian or any other distro, while still enjoying the benefits of an easy installation, great language support (if needed) and so on.
If you believe you have a better overview and more control over your system for using a "real linux", if you feel more nerdy or authentic just for using Debian, then you are just WRONG. In order to keep up this attitude you'll have to set up Linux from scratch. Otherwise you are just a Klugscheißer.
mmmm
Linux is not a fork on unix, It is it's own kernel. Do you even know what Unix is? Or what the difference between linux and unix are? Are you confused because of it being POSIX compliment and having a bash shell?
yes. i'm proud with debian.
yes. i'm proud with debian. all packages in ubuntu coming from debian. without debian, what will happen to ubuntu?
it would become even more
it would become even more unstoppably powerful
This guy is insane, don't
This guy is insane, don't listen to him :-)
LINUX IS THE BEST
First of ALL .... LINUX IS THE BEST OPERATING SYSTEM! is not important what distro you are using but the fact is! it is a LINUX DISTRO! if u want! u can create many BOOT to test all LINUX DISTRO! as LONG as it is LINUX! it is the BEST!
quite oppositely. (xp is the
quite oppositely. (xp is the best......)
*angry face*
I hate you.
Expanding the comparisons
Take a look at the comparison between debian, ubuntu, suse, redhat. You can see a small timeframe when debian was the most popular, right before ubuntu took off like a rocket.
http://www.google.com/trends?q=debian,+ubuntu,+suse,+redhat
I dont think this chart
I dont think this chart represents everything correctly. It just shows how many times people are searching for the word Ubuntu on the web, it doesnt show how many systems are running Ubuntu. People are curious and Ubuntu is new, so they want to find out what this buzz is all about. If you compare the total running systems though, I think Debian is a winner
Debian would only be the
Debian would only be the winner because it has been around longer and debian users are to afraid to stray from it to try ubuntu because they spend all of their time bashing it and they do not want to like what it has to offer.
Big Assumption...
"Debian users are afraid of Ubuntu?"
Really?
With all due respect friend, I doubt seriously that Debian users are afraid to try Ubuntu. You might consider the fact that many have tried it and aren't that impressed with it. I personally have tried Ubuntu and while it has an intriguing interface and is fairly "bleeding edge", I did like the feeling of sitting on pins and needles while waiting to experience the next inevitable "quirk". Not to mention things like the moody wireless connection that worked one time and not another. Since I've been using Debian I've experienced none of this and have enjoyed the stability and peace of mind that comes with having and working "with" a reliable OS. Also, in regards to command lines, I've seen nothing in Debian that would absolutely require me to use the command line to fix, install or repair, so anyone trying to pose that as a viable argument is clearly misinformed. (I'm not referring to you.)
All in all, I say "to each his own". If your happy using Ubuntu, more power to you, but remember that there are people out there who understand that popular doesn't equal better. If that was the case we'd still be using Windows.
what is wrong with SUSE? i'm
what is wrong with SUSE? i'm using openSUSE 10.1 and i'm very happy with it. I tried Ubuntu but i don't like it. Also tried Kubuntu and Fedora Core 5 but didn't liked them either
Why openSUSE?
It would be interesting to hear why do you think openSUSE is so good, and also what you don't like in Ubuntu? It's hard to make conclusions, unless you give us some more detail.
I, for one, would definitely like to hear your reasoning.
Well, I've been using SUSE
Well, I've been using SUSE for years now and I guess I'm used to it. I also like their control center YaST where you can configure your system very easy, it has a very simple but effective way of doing things. The other thing I like about SUSE is that /etc is very nice structured, especially the init.d directory. I also like distro's that install the development tools like header files and compilers and all that stuff by default, and provide multiple window managers by default. The thing I don't like about Ubuntu is the whole idea of doing admin things using sudo, and I can never find my way around in Ubuntu. I've started with linux on Mandrake back in the days but I moved on to SUSE very quickly as I discovered that SUSE was more mature/easy to use than Mandrake. And I never liked GNOME in the first place, it has limited functionality compared to KDE. OK, it may look very stylish but it still lacks some important user friendly tools. Some people may say that KDE is bloated, but I find that I'm much more productive when I use KDE than when I use GNOME.... but again that's just my openion
Moving to Kubuntu
I have been a Debian user for a while now, but I recently started trying Kubuntu in a virtual machine on my work laptop (which runs Windows). I had been using Etch previously, but Kubuntu won me over. It's just easier using it as a desktop because they do some nice customizations and seem to be getting newer apps in the repositories much sooner than Debian these days.
I'll second a previous comment. I'm looking forward to trying out upstart. The boot process has bugged my for a while now.
Chad
http://linuxappfinder.com
USE UBUNTU OR DIE
USE UBUNTU OR DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ubuntu!!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debian
i don't think you should
i don't think you should push Ubuntu in front of the other distro's out there. That's the beauty of Linux... its called choice, if you don't like some distro then pick another one. I've heard a lot of people who don't like Ubuntu.
Try Edgy
If you are going to try out Ubuntu, try Edgy ( current development release ) If for nothing else, for upstart. Edgy has some really nice innovations like running the GUI entirely from an underprivileged user using dbus to communicate ( no I don't just mean you are able to log in as an underprivileged user in case anyone doesn't know what I mean ) And upstart is just awesome. I don't know if it is Ubuntu specific but Edgy also has an `apt-get autoremove package` feature that automatically removes any dependencies that were automatically installed with that package and aren't dependencies for anything else ( especially nice for meta-packages ). Ubuntu isn't just Debian with a flashy GUI, there is a lot going on under the hood that people don't tend to talk about.
Anyway, I really like both Debian and Ubuntu and if you are more comfortable with Debian then by all means stick with it :)
apt-get
i prefer aptitude to apt-get. in my experience it handles dependencies better.
sudo aptitude purgewill remove the dependencies, also.
deborphanis another great command for finding poor, little orphaned libraries.
it all comes down to choice as a previous poster said. i've run various linux distros for almost nine years and like debian because i used red hat and mandrake in the days of dependency hell. (i hear it's been cleaned up, fedora folks, please respond.) i think the package and window managers make the most difference and for me it's aptitude and xfce. both are in debian so there you go :) my choice. what's yours?
as to the increasing popularity of linux it's nice to see major manufacturers like dell and acer selling linux loaded computers. i coach soccer and when one of my kids (just turned 16) told me he was running ubuntu i was super excited. of course he dual boots xp but hey...it's a start ;)
choice, choice, choice! choose :)
Definitely Edgy
Hey Trogdoor, thank you for a nice comment!
Yes, I'll definitely go with Edgy, because I'm currently using bleeding edge Debian, so any other comparison wouldn't be fair.
I've just read an article about upstart in Ubuntu and it really looks like a promising technology. I'm tired of sysvinit, too.
It looks like Ubuntu starts to depart from Debian these days, and you're probably right, it's not just Debian with polished GUI anymore.
Who knows, maybe I'll decide that it's time to change my favorite distribution, after a decade, and switch to Ubuntu. At least I won't need to relearn the packaging tool skills, which is a big plus for me. ;)
untapped potencial
i am glad to say that an avid Linux user, and have successfully converted most of my friends from windows to Linux. i have sunk my teeth into several distro starting from OpenSuse 10.2, fedora, Mandriva, Pclinux all the way to puppy. and by far my favorite is Ubuntu. It is a matter of preference. i personally prefer Ubuntu because it was the only distro that supported my generic webcam and multimedia keyboard. that and the speed and support won me over. however the main problem was the lack of video driver, wlan and beryl support out of the box. While the absence of these components is understandable, it greatly hinders people crossing over from windows to Ubuntu.there lies the potential. If major distros can somehow include the features or make it easy enough for your grand pa to activate it. Linux adopters would surely grow. Now i do want to acknowledge that distro's such as Sabayon linux, PClinux, mephis, mint and others have progressed in this department. But we should see more.
As for my friends, 2 have adopted Opensuse 10.2, 5 adopted PClinux, and the rest stuck with kubuntu. :)
I've try on all distro
I've try on all distro finally I'm back to Debian.
RE:
Like Dharmathi, I've also tried several, if not all Linux distributions. I've ended up on debian cause of some simple reasons.
One of them is the release cycle. I don't want to reformat my drive every six months in order to update to the latest version of whichever distribution I may use and even if i choose not to do so I would have to after a while since updates stop after 6 months of the new distro, or at the ubuntu case if you pick a LTS release after a couple years (If I'm not mistaken). Now, you'll tell me that I can use apt-get dist-upgrade option, or some other depending on the distro. I've done that and it has caused me a lot of trouble in the past so I wouldn't do it.
Generally, I'm a user/admin who wants stability on my system no matter if it's a workstation or a server. I've tried several other distros like Fedora or CentOS but the lack of packages in repositories made me turn them off.
Also, indeed, debian is a bit slow while booting using the initial configuration but it's not such a hard job to customize the services which start on boot.
One more thing I saw on some of the above posts was about eye-candies (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think that it's so hard even for some newbie into Linux world to see how to enable them. Besides, there's a ton of howtos available on the net, a simple google query like "how to ubuntu beryl" would bring up a very complete guide on how to the whole process.
I'd recommend Debian to anyone who might want a change from windows or even another distro.
Seconded!
Seconded!
I also recommend Debian
I had been trying to find an alternative to Windows for several years now, and at last I found it. I had been trying to surf on the 'Linux wave' for a bit more than a decade now, and it wasn't until I hit Ubuntu that I truly could appreciate how a computer could be put to good use and real work.
Still, I think it is an amazing enterprise to put it together, I believe Debian is much (and I mean MUCH) more stable, and robust for people who do want their computers for work. I find Ubuntu sacrifices a bit of stability for it's super-dupper polished interface and marketing, which I believe is needed, but definetly it doesn't cross my mind twice that once a user learns the basics of a linux distribution, Debian is the way to go. I suggest Debian Testing for the Desktop, which is very competent, not too old in it's packages, and serious about keeping the solidity of it's stable cousin, and Debian stable for server deployments where production websites will reside.